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manually input run data
There have been times when I'm not able to run with my transmitter or iPod, but I'd still love to be able to count the run to my profile.
What about having a way to manually input your run distance/time?
What about having a way to manually input your run distance/time?
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Nike+ - a great motivator.
I think about why I've become somewhat of an evangelist regarding the Nike+ system. I accept it's flaws (like finishing my workout 12k's into a 20k run and being slightly inaccurate regarding distance) because for me, on the whole, the system has been incredibly motivating.
Why do I think the community is important?
Running is something I've always enjoyed but had never been able to commit to long term. In the past 6 months I've dropped 10 kilos and am running my first marathon in 8 weeks. I can chalk a lot of that up to Nike+. I think the true beauty of this system is that it lets you challenge yourself. Sure, you're part of a community but the reason that community is so solid is that every member of it is pushing themselves in the same way.
This isn't the Olympics.
I don't know why cheating is such a concern - do we really join group challenges to beat other people? Isn't the key reason for joining these challenges to push ourselves - to put ourselves in a situation that forces us to work harder than we have previously? Let's be honest guys, we're not training for Olympic Gold here. I ask you this: if someone cheats in a Nike+ challenge aren't they the one who ultimately loses? I don't mean that in a touchy-feely philosophical sense, I mean that they're ultimately not going to get the gains they're seeking through Nike+. If, on the other hand you've increased your mileage, speed etc by taking part in that challenge, then surely you've had a personal victory.
Nike+ lets me keep track - so don't let me miss a run.
In terms of the notion of inputting data itself, I come back to my original point. I chalk a lot of my continued motivation up to Nike+. Those graphs or the personal challenges I set myself become such a focus because I want to see, there on my laptop screen, the progress I'm making. Scribbling it down in some diary misses the point entirely - it doesn't get recognised in my total distance, it's a gap in my history. Early on, when I started using Nike+ I became so obsessed with it that, if I didn't have my iPod with me, I'd skip the workout - after all, what's the point if nobody knows I did it? I've now become a little more committed to running itself but I still feel ripped off if I have to run and it doesn't get recorded.
Bottom line (for me).
We've turned this into such a huge issue. Bottom line for me? The system works pretty well - let me input the odd data manually so my entire running history is there at my fingertips. Nike+ is a motivational tool - don't make it demotivating to run if I happen to leave my iPod at work.
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I think it's a very good idea, especially since my Nike+ has constant issues with stopping itself in the middle, or even beginning of a run. I run the same distance 3 times a week, so I know what the data is supposed to be, but so far have no way to fix it. I just want to be able to track my running for my own personal use.
It's pretty sad that people are opposed to this because they fear "cheaters" in some pretend cyber-competition. Get lives losers.
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I am on my second sensor and the nike+ still doesn't accurately record my mileage or pace. I have been to the apple store and to the website and they are no help. I currently have to multiply my nike reported mileage by 1.31 to get my accurate mileage. There should be a feature for you to manually input your mileage and to correct the downloaded mileage. We're all serious runners here; all these restrictions are an insult.
I’m annoyed
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Folks, as the one who started all this I'd like to refocus the conversation. It feels like we're starting to talk in circles, since some of the newer comments express reservations that have already been addressed higher up in the thread.
So to recap:
"Let's manually input data!"
"No!"
"Yes!"
"Cheaters!"
"No, we want our miles logged, dammit! We sorta don't care about challenges!"
That's really all I've heard. Reread the thread for more detail, but it's easy for Nike to exclude manual data from challenges.
SO, the refined idea: Nike, please allow us to manually enter run data, but don't include those runs in challenges.
Comments?
I’m hopeful of consensus
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There's nothing quite so frustrating as an iPod crash at 9.8k. It would be nice to at least salvage that lost run in some bare-bones way. It adds insult to injury to see my training progress permanently down by that 10k run. It ought to be possible to enter the basics--I ran 10k in 58 minutes, or whatever--in order to keep up personal distance and training stats.
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I also like this idea... I had two of my runs that got lost when my ipod froze and I had to reboot and it was like I never ran those miles! I do hope Nike+ add this function in the future. I just run for personal reasons and set monthly goals and I was lucky that I still made my monthly goal despite having lost two runs, but I wish I got credit for those runs.
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The point is not that the system is cheat proof; it isn't. The point is that the motivational level required to cheat the system is much higher than the reward.
With a non-monetary award like winning a challenge on an exercise site, very few, if any, people would necessarily go out of their way to cheat. With an easy, automatic way to enter times, there are no obstacles to bluffing and still a small personal sense of victory. Imagine having enough desire to purchase a Nike+ sensor for $30, learn enough to manipulate the code of your iPod entries, or tap the sensor repeatedly. Now try and imagine having enough desire to simply create an account and conflate the numbers (no proof of purchase necessary to create an account as of now).
I'd say you'll instantly find several hundred more "black" ranked runners, as well as a ridiculous, unbelievable community leaderboard.
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This is fine, but the greatest part of Nike+ is it's a community with very few options but honesty. I like getting medals, trophies, and fighting in challenges knowing that I can't be cheated on.
There's an armband for no music for a reason. If you make this an option, please only count these towards personal goals and training regimens, not challenges or public profiles.
I’m anxious
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I think this is a great idea, except the non-Nike+ mileage should NOT count toward challenges.
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Even if these runs were flagged somehow as non-nike, this would be a great idea.
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Inappropriate?Even if these runs were flagged somehow as non-nike, this would be a great idea.
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Lin3ar, if I run through the woods past falling trees without nike+, does the run happen? I say yes, and I like my technology to enable my lifestyle, rather than have it dictate to me, for example, whether a run 'counts'.
Allowing manual inputs, but having them DQ'd from challenges seems like it would satisfy most of us. -
there have been times that my ipod nano somehow lost my data and it can never be submitted. That was anoying. I'm fine if it can be entered and only used for personal tracking. Label it as non-nike+. At least it would track it for coaching and personal data.
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Inappropriate?during practice for cross country i do not use my ipod when i am with my teammates. i don't get to see any of these runs on the nike+ website. I REALLY NEED THIS OPTION!!!
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What I would do is just have my sensor in my shoe, and my ipod in my pocket (or attached to your waistband if you don't have pockets) that way you can record your runs and talk to your friends.
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Good point I do this many times and for most races I compete in. You also have the option of the bracelet
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I tool am not permitted to use my ipod in my du-athalon races so I don't get to include these runs. I have also had upload problems due to corrupt ipod files which I would love to have been able to input.
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Running with your iPod & no headphones is a good option - I want my runs to show up so it motivates me not to forget to start my iPod or end it (or forget it).
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Running with your iPod & no headphones is a good option - I want my runs to show up so it motivates me not to forget to start my iPod or end it (or forget it).
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Inappropriate?I think this is a great idea, except the non-Nike+ mileage should NOT count toward challenges.
10 people think
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Inappropriate?you people just need to learn xml so you can load these runs. i just recreate the files when iTunes loses my data.
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Doesn't the data have a digital signature on it though (which I assume has a secret included)? So you can re-post a run, but faking a new one?
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It does, but I believe it is per sensor or iPod. All my runs have the same signature data. You need to change the date/time and update some other stuff, but the biggest pain is altering the data points used for the graphs. Of course, those points don't really mean much since they aren't going to be at all accurate anyways.
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Inappropriate?This is fine, but the greatest part of Nike+ is it's a community with very few options but honesty. I like getting medals, trophies, and fighting in challenges knowing that I can't be cheated on.
There's an armband for no music for a reason. If you make this an option, please only count these towards personal goals and training regimens, not challenges or public profiles.
I’m anxious
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This comment was removed on 07/16/09.
see the change log -
Matt L., if you think the system is cheat-proof as it is, see the snarky XML genius' post above. And if someone wants to cheat on a challenge, what's to stop them from tapping their sensor in their hand as they watch TV, or walking around with the sensor in their shoe everywhere they go instead of only when they 'exercise', as most people do? Point is, you're already playing on an uneven field. I'm suggesting this feature as someone who runs for health and for running's sake, not to see how I stack up to people I've never met. But that's just me - I recognize that lots of people love the motivation that comes from community challenges.
Seems like a solution that we could all live with is for the manually entered data to not count toward challenges, eh?
Run swiftly...
Happy trails... -
Inappropriate?im not gunna lie i dont exercise with it i just like using it as a pedometer to see how fsr i walk in a day
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Inappropriate?The point is not that the system is cheat proof; it isn't. The point is that the motivational level required to cheat the system is much higher than the reward.
With a non-monetary award like winning a challenge on an exercise site, very few, if any, people would necessarily go out of their way to cheat. With an easy, automatic way to enter times, there are no obstacles to bluffing and still a small personal sense of victory. Imagine having enough desire to purchase a Nike+ sensor for $30, learn enough to manipulate the code of your iPod entries, or tap the sensor repeatedly. Now try and imagine having enough desire to simply create an account and conflate the numbers (no proof of purchase necessary to create an account as of now).
I'd say you'll instantly find several hundred more "black" ranked runners, as well as a ridiculous, unbelievable community leaderboard.
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There already is a ridiculous, unbelievable community leaderboard! Do you really think that 10 Nike+ users each week break the world record for the 5K?
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Come on, Matt, you've clearly made peace with the fact that people cheat. What's wrong with more cheaters? Seriously. Let them cheat and pretty soon they'll be so far ahead of you that you won't even know they're there - they can enjoy whatever victory they seem to think they're getting.
Just like in a road race, it's the handful of people right in front of you that keeps you chasing, not the ones you can't even see, right? :)
You didn't seem to take my last bit into account: DQ'ing manually added data from group challenges. Doesn't that resolve your concerns?
From what I'm reading on this thread, the people that want this feature don't really seem to care so much about the challenges anyway - just their overall mileage. -
Ask mr. Google.com: nike+ iPod cheat. You will be surprised.
That's why is important for a way to transfer all my challenges to excel. (I do that manually each day). And if a see a runner that logs more than 100 miles a week I delete him/her in my excel file because 1) He/she is a an elite runner. A breed apart, almost non-human. We don't fit in the same challenge. 2) He/she asked mr. Google.com for a way to cheat using iPod. We definitively don't belong on the same challenge!
I don't cheat, but I know people who do. Anyone knows that Guippino guy? -
Inappropriate?If someone wanted to cheat there are easier ways than creating bogus xml files. I have seen some unworldly 5k times out there. Someone people have clearly decalibrated their sensors to to be able to post some of these results.
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Inappropriate?im sure people are already cheating by editing the xml files and this would create more cheating.. but really.. ur only cheating yourself.. non the less, it shouldnt count toward challenges.. a good option to add to nike+ with rules of course
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Inappropriate?I also like this idea... I had two of my runs that got lost when my ipod froze and I had to reboot and it was like I never ran those miles! I do hope Nike+ add this function in the future. I just run for personal reasons and set monthly goals and I was lucky that I still made my monthly goal despite having lost two runs, but I wish I got credit for those runs.
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Inappropriate?But loading your own data misses the whole point of most of the functionalities. Some people are cheating, but apart from that, what are you going to post when you didn't use any measurement tool? That you run approximately for X hours at what you believe it was an "8:00ish" mile per hour speed at what you believe was a semi-constant pace? If you don't use any tool for measuring then even your own information will be affected.
I believe that posting your own information would generate a huge statistical mess. If you want to measure your run, use a measurement tool, and if you are using such a tool, why not make it the Nike+ so you can post it on the website?
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This is the real problem with the idea of loading a run without having it recorded on the sensor. There are websites out there that do this already (nikeplusedit.com), but the pace is the sticking point. There's not a good way to do that besides using the sensor.
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I have known the exact measurements for the runs I replaced. The ones that Apple and Nike lost, I actually received the summary at the end of the run went in to upload and the file was lost when iTunes errored out. I just recreated it based off the summary data it told me a few minutes earlier. Another one was a road race (forgot the sensor in my other shoes) where they have clocks at every mile and you always get the results mailed to you. Doesn't get more accurate than that. Also there are races you can't bring nike+ with you (I've seen some races prohibiting mp3 players and for anyone in XC or track).
For regular runs you can figure it too. Even before Nike+ I could figure out the exact distance of my run with mapping tools (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com). I calculated my mileage like that all through high school. Even memorized the distances from the maps at the forest preserves I ran through so I knew my off road distance. -
Santiago, I'd like to be able to manually add my runs because I like the Nike+ community, graphs, website etc but I'm sick and tired of my iPod freezing up or losing my runs. There are some other chip/watch devices that I'd like to use but would also like to stay with Nike+. These other tools also will offer more about my runs that the Nike+ sensor. So I'd like the best of both worlds. If I am not able to manually enter my runs, I am going to end up ditching Nike+ just so I can get better tools from another source.
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Santiago, I'd like to be able to manually add my runs because I like the Nike+ community, graphs, website etc but I'm sick and tired of my iPod freezing up or losing my runs. There are some other chip/watch devices that I'd like to use but would also like to stay with Nike+. These other tools also will offer more about my runs that the Nike+ sensor. So I'd like the best of both worlds. If I am not able to manually enter my runs, I am going to end up ditching Nike+ just so I can get better tools from another source.
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I would also love to manually add my runs and join this community.... I by chance happened upon the Nike+ and not knowing about it have been running with a Garmin 305 which I love. Especially since it's GPS which is more accurate than most running devices. I have joined the community only to find out that I have to have the wrist band, sensor oh and shoes. It would be nice to be able to be part of this while using my equipment and I wouldn't mind getting the wrist band and the sensor but still use my Garmin for accuracy. I also just found out that the sensor will only be 90 percent accurate if it's in a Nike shoe and not strapped on any shoe which would make it less accurate. I'm totally bummed to say the least !! You would think Nike could make it work with any shoe but I guess if they did that they wouldn't sell shoes.......
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Santiago, personally the thing I care about is total mileage. The other stuff is nice, but not really part of my motivation. So far, I've seen my total mileage at the end of my run before the data gets lost. Otherwise, there's always http://www.gmap-pedometer.com, as Derick points out.
I think this would be easy to deal with statistically, since the site would know which runs were manually entered (due to empty data fields such as instantaneous pace measurements). In the simplest scenario, manual runs just wouldn't be included in overall calculations. But there are other ways, too. I can't imagine you're interested in what they are, but let me know and I can go on. -
Allan, you don't have to have Nike shoes. I just tuck the sensor into the bottom of the laces (you want it as horizontal as possible) and make sure to calibrate it once. That leaves the sensor ($30 I think) and some recording device that picks up the sensor's radio signal. This can either be the wrist band OR an iPod. If you already have one, check that your model supports NikePlus and you won't have to buy the wristband. All the newer ones larger than the Shuffle work.
I feel like my shoelace setup has been perfectly accurate - it would be interesting to benchmark it against a GPS, I suppose, but it agrees so far with Google Maps at least. Good luck. -
Thanks Freeflow1 for the info. I have been doing more research on the + system and found that there are pouches made to work for any shoe which is cool. I have heard to many iPod stores that make me want to try the wristband as I like running with my shuffle since it's small and light. Plus I can't get use to the arm strap. The one thing that bothers me but I am going to try it anyways is the calibration and accuracy. It would make sense that if you're improving on your running that you will have to be calibrating all the time, like once or twice a month. Im not sure I want to be always calibrating the darn thing. My second concern is the accuracy.... I will be using my 305 to track the + to see how accurate it is or stays as I improve. My 305 has software that tracks my runs, heart rate and so on, my reason for wanting to be part of + is the community of runners, being able to see the improvements the way the site shows it and the way the site keeps or would help keep me motivated. The training, goal setting and so on is really sweet to say the least. I just hope the darn thing works good.......
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Allan, FYI Nike claims that after you calibrate it once, you shouldn't have to do it again, no matter how slow/fast you run. It's supposedly a function of a rule of biomechanics that's briefly discussed on page 2 of this excellent article about the Nike+ system: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/m...
A few tips when calibrating: a longer distance is better, and use a track (at a school/university, for example) since you know they're 400meters around. I ran 12 laps (4800m/~3 mi) at my local track. If you've set your iPod to miles like I have, there's the extra step of calculating your mileage to 2 decimal places (in the Google search bar, type "4800m in mi"). Then hit "Calibrate" and you're done. Do your own digging into this, but my read is you shouldn't be re-calibrating once it's done.
I read about the pouches for the sensor, too, but realized that if there's any way for the sensor to flop around at all it will introduce error. Once I realized mine was securely held in place by my laces, I opted for that since it's lashed straight to my foot.
Also, please post your results on your accuracy after you test it against GPS! -
Inappropriate?I like to be able to customize & change my training for a marathon. Life keeps happening and it is unpredictable so flexibility is a must.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Nikeplusedit.com will create an xml file for you. Then you just put it in your Nano under the folder "latest", and then sync your iPod.1 Comment Add a comment
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I have confirmed that runs created at nikeplusedit actually count towards challenges. Now I don't get penalized for forgetting my sensor on my other shoes at races. This is especially great considering I actually had my best race in about 7 years this past weekend sans iPod, watch and mile splits.
I will be building my own version though. Want something that isn't simply metric and can take mile splits and try to generate a meaningful graph from them.
So everyone can stop complaining now. Even those whining about the "sanctity of challenges", just stop complaining. -
Inappropriate?As an honest runner who just wants to get credit for runs that freeze on my iPod, I feel better after seeing the programmer's response below on his website about why these "created" runs will not show up on Leader boards.
"I have had other people report this before. I believe this is because the files that the nikeplusedit site generate are very generic in terms of what they contain. There's nothing in the file to tie it to a specific user, and I also declare in the file that it has been generated with the website.
As such, I think Nike+ can easily tell the files are not 'genuine' and have (understandably) excluded their stats from challenges, leaderboards etc to stop gaming of the system.
In my view this is a fair compromise for Nike to make - they allow uploading of my generated files (which could easily be blocked) for individual users to keep their own data up to date, but don't let them be used to possibly manipulate the other stats."
I’m thankful
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Inappropriate?I don't think this is a very good idea at all. This would make the Nike+ system basically a fisherman's blog where everyone could say how wonderful they are. Also, this would never happen because there would be no demand for Nike+ products and therefore no reason to keep it up.
If you want to manually enter your runs, I suggest you make an excel spreadsheet. Or if you have an iPhone/iTouch then get iFitness.
I’m saddened by such a bad idea.
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Looktothecookie, you miss the point. As an honest runner, I just want to have a way to input and get credit for runs I have done and which have not been recorded due to freezes, low battery, etc. I love the Nike method, especially the new beta, and don;t want to use any other system.
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Yeah, I agree with Joel. Why should those of us that want a way to track our true mileage be relegated to using an excel spreadsheet when there's this great website?
Looktothecookei, see the post just above yours - it talks about the existing method of manually adding run data using a 3rd party application. The developer is confident that this data isn't used by Nike for group challenges. Nike would just keep the same policy when it incorporates this feature to their website. :) -
I must disagree hole-heartedly with you. The whole purpose of Nike+ is to create a community of runners that all use a "cheatproof" system to workout. The challenges and medals are all related to this cheatproof system. With manually inputed data the whole purpose of Nike+ falls through the cracks. There would be no point in having challenges anymore and the color ranking system and trophies would also be pointless. For every honest person like you two, there are ten cheaters who would ruin it for honest people. Thus I can only think of two possible comprimises.
1. Allow Nike+ to be a downloadable desktop application and let people input there run data without being able to connect with the Internet, so there is no chance of cheating.
2. The second option, which many people before me have suggested, is to allow mannually inputed data on the existing Nike+ system, but not allow it to count towards challenges or any other community based aspect.
Finally, this manually inputed run data will never happen because Nike would lose a ton of money from it. No one would buy the sensors anymore. And if it did happen, Nike+ would become a pay service and many people, including me, wouldn't like that. -
IT'S NOT CHEATPROOF! Nothing that allows the user to perform the calibration is cheatproof. Why would people stop buying the sensors as a result of this? All the people asking for it already have the sensors. It's wanted because their devices/software are faulty and lose people's data. People still like have that voice telling them their distance, speed and time. If Nike ever tried to charge people, they would end up losing money because masses of people would quit using it and move to Garmin or the system that Adidas is working on.
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looktothecookie,
I don't feel like you're hearing me, but i don't know how to explain it more clearly: a manually inputted data system can easily be designed to be excluded from challenges!! This would make the challenges cheatproof. In fact, if you look at the thread closely you'll see I'm one of the original advocates of this idea that you refer to in your 2nd point.
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I agree with Looktothecookie. A manually inputted data can be easily designed but what would be the motivation for Nike to do it? the idea is to use Nike products, why create this so you don't have to use their products? now, why do you need to be "credited" with you run online? credited to who, yourself? you already know how much you ran, you can input that information in other systems. If your hardware is malcfunctioning you should seek a repair, not simply have the whole system change. If you don't want your info to be shared as part of a community then probably you are using the wrong system if you want the information to be shared, you would need to agree in some basic rules, one of those would be to use the same measurement system everyone else is required to use in this community. I suggest one thing, let's create a website where people can log their information without any type of measurement, only the data that the users manually input, lets see how successful that website will become. We'll do it for free, seel advertising and see how the community evolves.
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Just who exactly are we supposed to go to for "repair" Santiago? The manufacturer? Oh, that would be Nike and Apple. On their 7th version of the software, many people still seem to be having issues. This why we are suggesting a backup method. The reason for wanting it added to the site is so you have a log of the run. By your logic, there is no reason for the Nike+ site to exist at all. You already get a summary of your run at the end, why upload it at all?
I have no idea where you are going with the rest of your comment. Who's talking about hiding there info here (which is already an option)? Also, there are many sites (including one by Nike, which someone said is being discontinued) that let you manually enter data (runnerplus.com, fitlink.com, shapelink.com, etc) which are successful. Some even sync with your Nike+ data. -
Derick, what i understand is that you trust or like the nikeplus.com website and functionality but do not like (or trust) the hardware used to upload the information that feeds the nikeplus.com website. You should consider that the nikeplus website is also a tool for nike that would allow better understanding of running habits and other valuable stats that end up in better product design and marketing. They key to make that information as valuable as its (for both nike and the end user) is to have what, to a great percentage, is a realiable tool of measurement. A personal observation of how fast, for how long and the distance can never be as accurate as the hardware offered by nike. I like and use the Nike system (even with some eventual loss of data) because it provides me with the hardware that would help me measure my progress.
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I would contend that my personal observations are more accurate than the Nike+ sensor. The way I tracked my runs before was to map my route with MapPoint or gmap-pedometer.com, which is certainly more accurate for distance since it uses GPS. My time was also more accurate, because it is a lot easier to stop a wristwatch than to fuss with the menu of a Nano (especially through a plastic window in freezing temperatures). Even taking a look at a clock when leaving and returning is going to be within a minute of accuracy. Other than races, I am not all that concerned with the time being perfectly accurate. As for your average pace, that is just simple math.
I just want a log of what I have done so I can look back and see what I was doing when I ran my best times or suffered stress related injuries. I couldn't care less about Nike's use of data. I've never liked their shoes anyway. I guess we are expecting too much from a company that suppresses videos of their clients being dunked on. -
Derick, what I understand from your message is that the only thing you like from the Nike+ system is the website design, you already take good enough measurements of your runs but don't want to keep them in a piece of paper, excel spreadsheet or similar tool.
Of all the options you have mentioned, none of them offers a similar or nice enough website design to add your information? Runner’s world offers a quite good running log. Nike+ is not just a running log, the same way the log for the Garmin forerunner 405 or other pieces of hardware.
I do trust the Nike sensor, I believe it to be accurate enough for what I want and it also allows me to map the runs I made (thus letting me double check if what was measured by the sensor + armband was close enough) and the sensor is measuring my pace while I'm running meaning that I can get feedback on my speed every time I check my armband. -
Inappropriate?There's nothing quite so frustrating as an iPod crash at 9.8k. It would be nice to at least salvage that lost run in some bare-bones way. It adds insult to injury to see my training progress permanently down by that 10k run. It ought to be possible to enter the basics--I ran 10k in 58 minutes, or whatever--in order to keep up personal distance and training stats.
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Inappropriate?Looktothecookie, you miss the point. There are some of us who love the Nike system, especially the new beta. We are honest runners, who only want a way to input our honest mileage into a system that for whatever reason we might not be able to tap into when we need to (crashes, battery runs out, etc.) in order to input what we REALLY ran. I for one would welcome the idea to have us be able to manually input runs for personal tracking only.
Joel
I’m confused by looktothecookie's post.
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Personal tracking is an entirely diferrent story. I think that if Nike+ allowed that, I think that would be great. However I still the Nike+ would become a pay service if this were to happen.
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I disagree that adding a manual capability would make Nike+ website become a pay service. The Nike+ initiative is about advertising and brand building via a global online community to sell more Nike products like shoes and apparel, which are the big money makers, not to sell more $20 sensors that are only replaced about once a year. Sure, the estimated $50 million in revenues from the Nike+ initiative are nice, but this is nothing in comparison to Nike's overall revenues of $19.2 billion! In addition, with millions of people now in the Nike+ online community, the cost of reaching these customers is much cheaper and more targeted than advertising alternatives such as print and television. I am certain Nike will implement any features in this product that they believe will increase the number of users who participate in the community and the number of times they visit the Nike+ site.
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pay service - no way. Just as an example, untril I "got into" Nike +, I had not bought a nike product in years. In the last 2 years, I have bought 6 pairs of nike shorts, 5 or 6 shirts, 2 foot pods, and 3 pairs of top of the line nike shoes. (The last ones being the obscenely expensive $165 360s). If Nike is smart (and I think they are) they DONT want to run off customers, especially loyal ones.....
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Inappropriate?I don't know if I wasn't clear enough in my first comment. THIS IS ALREADY POSSIBLE using websites like nikeplusedit.com.
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I tried this with my iPod Touch, and as luck would have it the application doesn't support this model since it seems to have an OS that's unique among the iPod family. I don't know why the iPod touch is different than everything else, but unfortunately that leaves me out in the cold not just from the NikePlus website, but also the workaround that you were kind enough to point out!
Thought you iPod Touch-owning readers out there should know...
:(
The developer of editnikeplus.com has this to say: http://getsatisfaction.com/newformula... -
Inappropriate?Honestly, do any of us really care what other people do with their information? If you have a community of friends, don't you just care how you stack up against them? You know what your friends are capable of doing, and it will be obvious if they are cheating. Make it where lost runs can be uploaded.
Some of my friends have been working hard on training programs, and they've lost runs. Because of that, the site says they're behind. That kind of stinks, don't you think? I just don't care what other people on the site say they are doing or how fast. -
Inappropriate?I understand your reasoning and I'm sure that all of us at one time or another have ran a really great unscheduled run a few times and wished we had the Nike + with us. It would be nice to be able to add those just as well deserved and hard earned miles. In the end though I have to agree with "Matt Longacre" I know it should be about your personal goals and what you achieve not what others are doing, but it really helps motivate me even more when I see other people slowly moving ahead of me in challenges. Knowing that what people are doing is fair and honest helps you push to match the abilities of others. Unfortunately there would be people who would abuse the ability to add your own miles as a way to win challenges. It is very sad but true. I personally like a fair environment as I do not have any running friends or partners to run with in person so all of my fellow nike + runners act as my running partners and help motivate me to improve my running abilities. Honesty and fairness is completely necessary for a community such as this.
I’m thankful
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Inappropriate?good idea, i want to insert runs - but i agree they shouldn't be counted in online data sharing
I’m cool
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Inappropriate?Well since there is a work around, and they WILL count... I'm very psyched to try this!! All you people who worry about cheaters.... who hurt you in your life. This is first and formost a competition with yourself. Who cares if someone cheats!
I’m amused
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Inappropriate?Damn it Nike, I just lost the data from another run!!! Not only was this a fast one but it would have pushed me into my first new level since you put them on the website! (I can't believe I really care about that, but I suppose I do.)
Come on. Would you please let us manually add data already?
Given the interest in this topic, Nike, would you at least weigh in here?
If you say to be patient it's in the works, I'll stop being grumpy. In the meantime the growing numbers of followers of this thread are going to have to rely on a third-party workaround (nikeplusedit.com - Thanks Lalaroo!) and wonder why Nike is 1) willing to cede control of its website to people not employed by their web team and 2) not responding to the feedback it requested, to boot!
I’m vexed
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Inappropriate?Folks, as the one who started all this I'd like to refocus the conversation. It feels like we're starting to talk in circles, since some of the newer comments express reservations that have already been addressed higher up in the thread.
So to recap:
"Let's manually input data!"
"No!"
"Yes!"
"Cheaters!"
"No, we want our miles logged, dammit! We sorta don't care about challenges!"
That's really all I've heard. Reread the thread for more detail, but it's easy for Nike to exclude manual data from challenges.
SO, the refined idea: Nike, please allow us to manually enter run data, but don't include those runs in challenges.
Comments?
I’m hopeful of consensus
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This is a good idea. But I still am adamant that it will become a pay service if this were to happen.
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Inappropriate?Until April or May of this year my Nike + runs were syncing/importing into my Nike Training Log, but now that has been discontinued by Nike (there is another thread in forums about this). For those of you who don't know Nike Training log is the manual tracking tool on the Nike site which allows tracing of runs, workouts, biking, etc. So, the Training Log and Nike + no longer interface and the Training Log is going to be totally discontinued soon according to Nike moderators. Why oh why oh why? Anyway, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Nike, please allow us to manually enter run data, but don't include those runs in challenges.
Thank you. -
Inappropriate?looktothecookie is still adam ant. ;-)
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Inappropriate?WOW! I LOVED your recap! Just let us do it (NIKE just do it)and exclude them from the challenges. I thought anyone of average intelligence could understand this.
I’m entertained by this thread
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Inappropriate?It is easy to understand, that's why I want Nike to open their Nike+ system to other mp3 players, also let other shoemakers make sensor compartments in their products soles. We are just going around and around the same topic. Nike+ is a tool tied to a product (or products) you can create your own website for tracking your personal runs, but I like all the statistical benefits of having a single element of measurement. I don't care much about the challenges but I like the idea of seeing the global stats, the time of day people usually runs, the average pace and distance of some people, if you want something for yourself, maybe you are not supposed to be part of the Nike+ community (in my opinion, of course).
I’m Frustrated
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Inappropriate?Santiago, you posted two comments in different places, but I'll address them both here for convenience.
As to why, Nike would make this change because it would improve useability of the website for its members, increasing the appeal of buying the Nike+ system in the first place. (If people considering buying one hear about lost data and missing miles, they're not going to buy it.) Allowing manual inputs of lost data just makes it a much more functional website. I just want a system that tracks our mileage for us automatically, and does it properly.
No one has said that they don't want their information shared with the community. I think the community aspect of the website is great, and I'm glad that my information is shared along with thousands of others' data. I'm just saying that that's not my main interest in the website. After all, there's so much more to the website than the community interaction. It's the most comprehensive way so far to help a runner track, map, and analyze their running, as well as getting coached, to boot! I never *cared* about my mileage until the Nike+ system came out - that's the power of this website, so I'm not interested in going elsewhere as you suggest! Why would we go to an entirely different website, when there's so much cool functionality on this website that is *designed* to display all the data that we're interested in? I wouldn't recommend that you start up your own website as you suggest - I think there's room for all of us in here.
I just don't understand why you're so eager to have these people get off the website simply because they want their mileage tracked properly. I think the ones that have a higher expectation of performance are the ones that will most contribute to the improvement of the website and community, not those that argue against improvements. I have a hunch that you haven't lost any run data yet, and wonder whether you'll think differently when you do. I guess I think it's selfish to expect that the website should only be designed for people with your particular view.
And that's the core of this debate: I can't understand why you and others are still opposed to this idea even though it's clear from everything that's been written that the data management would be designed so it address any cheating concerns. Since this change would not affect you as users of the website, why are you so insistent that the rest of us shouldn't see improved features on the website?
Okay I think I'll sit back for a while and let others weigh in. I don't want this to be a two person back-and-forth. (But I'll be reading!)
In the meantime, I think I'll go have conversations about something less controversial, say like abortion or Dick Cheney. :)
I’m frustrated too
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Thank you for your response freeflow1. I agree with many points you mention. I particularly like this one: "I just want a system that tracks our mileage for us automatically, and does it properly. "
I believe that the a solution for faulty hardware or forgetting to use the hardware is not overriding the system.
To me, having my mileage tracked properly is not when I measure in my head, it is when it's measured by another tool (how do you know it's been 18 laps around the track or 19? how do you know it's been 8.2 miles and not 8.4? how do you know you ran for 58 minutes and not 57.3? how do you count your average speed when you slowed down for 4 minutes three times during the run?
These kinds of measurements are taken by the Nike+ system when it works properly. My point is to make it more accurate and more reliable.
also have to agree that manually input data would be useful for personal tracking but in my opinion, it should not be mixed with any of the things already available. For example:
Manually entered data does not count for your levels, challenges, training and related items.
The data entered manually is shown in the graphs is shown in a different color, in that way you would get to know how many of your runs where measure using an "adequate" tool and how many where not.
It will also help Nike getting better stats in terms of usage, distance, speed, time of day. etc.
Again, cheating is not my issue (there is already enough cheating in the system the way it is) my concern is the tool as a more accurate statistical system, for the user and for Nike. -
Inappropriate?Santiago, I just wanted to say it's not always about failed equipment. On occasion I've gotten to the trail and realized my iPOD is dead, I have just forgotten to bring it, or had an opportunity to run and didn't have my equipment availble (on vacation, the airlines lost my luggage). Anyways, that has been my problem. Would you just listen to all my excuses, anyways I don't participate in the challenges, it's ALL about me, literally.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Whatever it takes to make it fair and reasonable, this functionality is long overdue.. There are times when the iPod might not work or is dead, and then you have no recorded data. So the miles you run when the iPod is dead shouldn't count toward your totals? If the purpose is to track miles then not having this functionality is a gap and renders the site useless for that purpose...I look to Nike to figure out how to make it work, and I would eventually stop using it for that reason... I mean really Nike, its not like there aren't plenty of alternatives for runners to track miles and participate in running communities and activities... IMHO.
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Inappropriate?I'm beginning to think Nike might not be reading these threads after all. I've given them several great ideas, and they always say, "That sounds great. I will relay that information." Then nothing. I wonder how much these threads even matter, even though I love Nike Plus.
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Inappropriate?for the people that wants to just enter runs that they have put in due to freezes or forgetting thier ipod that day, try other sites like runnersworld or runnersplus. runnersworld daily log has alot more info you can add if you really wanted to just keep track of your mileage. but if nike would let you manually enter your mileage and time i don't think you should be allowed to enter in challanges. because come on, you will tell me so many people out there right now are running a 9 min 5k.
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Inappropriate?Disallowing manually entered data to count towards challenges would punish those of us who are honest but have days when a run is lost. This hasn't happened to me yet. I'll pretty irked if I have a good run and it's lost. That it would count toward a challenge wouldn't be so upsetting. It would be upsetting that it wouldn't count towards my goals. Anyway, if someone really wants to cheat they could simply calibrate their iPod to log twice (or more) the true mileage a run should be. It would be simple to know then how far a run was but rack up miles at the same time. Goals could just be multiplied by that factor. No matter what someone is always going find a way to cheat.
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Inappropriate?Between the two threads on manually inputting data there's a lot of mixed feelings on the subject but I'm for it. itouch & nike sensors are not reliable and by the time you notice your not recording its usually too late. there's a lot of talk about cheating on challenges out there if they allowed manual inputting. I'd bet most of those folks who worry about it don't play golf either. Honnorable people call there own penalty strokes in golf, honorable runners dont falsify miles. But honestly if they did who the hell cares, Nike does't pay us for these challenges. They're meant to be fun and maybe inspiring. They have never been my major source of insparation to run - they just for fun to keep it intresting. Someone spoke about switching to Garmin in one of the threads. I aplaud that person. That will probably be my next purchase too. And to the person who said their sensor is as accurate as a GPS - Share what ever your smoking with the rest of us. you must have the most consistant stride, cadence and speed in the history of running to be as accurate a GPS.
Many ideas have been talked about adressing how to keep the manual in put miles fair - I agree if Nike wanted to, it could do it and keep it fair. But I doubt they will as it could cost them money in the long run. The only way they will change is if enough of us complain or stop using them.
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?I imagine that one reason for Nike not allowing manual entry is that they would prefer that their hardware and shoes be used; it's part of the business model. No, you don't need Nike shoes for this, but it is really convenient that they have a nice little well in them for the sensor.
My solution would be to only allow a certain percentage of runs to be manually entered. A typical reason why I want to enter a manual run is to recapture those six miles I lost last Sunday when I paused in the middle and forgot to unpause.
If I am limited to one manual run in five, I wouldn't even notice it, and Nike wouldn't have to worry about a large influx of folks using their site without using their products.
Of course, I agree with all who say that the manual runs should not be counted in challenges. -
Inappropriate?Wow. Let's all be friends here. Nike + is great. They've stopped syncing the manual training log with Nike +. I for one would like to see them reinstate this manual option. It would be nice. If it doesn't happen I will survive. Thanks to all of you. And thanks to Nike for their shoes and their technology. May Prefontaine's memory be with us forever.
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Inappropriate?The manual option is a must for many reasons, i understand it should not count for challenges but for someone like me that uses it strickly to track my personal goals it is frustrating that runs don't count (no ipod) or get wiped out because of a techinal problem with an ipod
I’m will be happy if this gets added
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Inappropriate?This gives people the opportunity to cheat not only others but themselves too. this is not a good idea; it challenges the integrity of Nike+ user input
I’m I think it's a bad idea.
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If you are concerned about cheating, then just don't allow manually inputed data to count toward challenges. I have been very frustrated by long runs NOT uploading to Nike + and lost data. It is upsetting to have no way to input lost runs.
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Another idealist weighs in. Who is going to use this to cheat themselves? And why do you care?
As stated many times above, there are plenty of people already cheating with the calibration of their sensor and the aforementioned 9:00 5Ks. The owners of challenges have the ability to kick out anyone they want. Let them police their challenges.
There are even worse violations that Nike hasn't figured out yet. Did you know that pausing during your run doesn't disqualify it from a speed challenge? So I can just run 1/4 mile intervals with breaks in between to post an unrealistic time too. If you doubt me look at eddied80 in this challenge https://slowgeek.com/ch/741950085. He doesn't have any runs of 13+ miles that don't have multiple pauses (usually a minimum of 5). Yet he sits in 2nd place.
There are other unsavory things that take place like withholding runs or joining a challenge at the last minute. Personally, I think walking shouldn't count in distance challenges. Trying log miles when injured in a team challenge is one thing, but people who walk 8-10 miles to work everyday just don't belong in any challenges.
There will always be people who cheat, no matter what the venue. Get over it. It's not like there is anything at stake here. It's just a picture of a trophy. -
Inappropriate?So is there anyone from Nike who is going to respond to this rather lengthy thread?! Perhaps the commenter above is correct. They aren't reading these at all!
I’m frustrated
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I just checked, and there's still no activity in any of the moderators' accounts. I did notice that one of the Nike reps that has joined is Clover, the same name as a Nike rep that's fairly active in the NikePlus Forums (a different site altogether). She just established her profile on July 17, so I'm hoping we'll hear something soon. On the upside, those following this thread will probably be the first ones to hear from a Nike rep, since it's getting the most attention...
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Inappropriate?If it's been manually inputted, there should be an indicator that the user manually inputted it.
I agree that it should not count towards challenges. -
Inappropriate?Well just got back from a 4 mile run and my ipod touch froze up and crashed. That run will not up load. you know if nike and apple had a system that would not fail I would agree with all of you, but they don't. They need to implement manual data entry, and let it count towards challenges.
I’m pissed
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Inappropriate?I am on my second sensor and the nike+ still doesn't accurately record my mileage or pace. I have been to the apple store and to the website and they are no help. I currently have to multiply my nike reported mileage by 1.31 to get my accurate mileage. There should be a feature for you to manually input your mileage and to correct the downloaded mileage. We're all serious runners here; all these restrictions are an insult.
I’m annoyed
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I agree with this point. In addition to being able to manually input runs (no data due to forgotten device or other problem) We should be able to edit runs that we have uploaded. I ran a 5k road race today and verified it with the mapit function, but my sensor only recorded it as 2.7 mi. There was a suspicious dip to 0 speed in there as well that makes me wonder what happened. I would like to be able to edit the run to match the map.
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Inappropriate?yep, i agree you should be able to manually input your runs. i went on a run today and my sensor said it was a 11.5 mile run which sounds real good. but according to the "map it" function that nike supplies and mapmyrun the run was actually on 10.2 miles. how dare that sensor lie to me and make me feel like i ran more than what i did. that 1.3 miles could have cheated somebody else out of winning a challenge, who knows. so look, the sensor isn't all that precise. use it to get you in the ball park. map out your run on a site that offers it to get a true reading or run at a track and keep count of your laps. you can keep your own log records its not that big of a deal. because believe me there is nothing worse than your sensor telling you that you are running a certain distance and go enter a race and burn out before the end because you thought you have been running further than you really have been. come on people, its only running, it supposed to be fun.
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Inappropriate?Here's another situation where it would be good to be able to edit or manually input a run. I ran my 1st organized 10k this past weekend. My iPod was not exactly calibrated. Its close enough for my daily runs, but not for a competition. It registered only 9.98k. So, it doesn't show up as a 10k run and it also doesn't show as my personal best. I guess I could have kept running past the finish line, but I barely made it as it was. It's not really that big of a deal, but it would be nice if I could correct the distance. The time was correct according to the timing system.
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right after that run before you hit done you could have calibrated it to 10k based on the run. - I know its frustrating the same thing happend to me at the Bay-to-Bay 12k race in Fl and there was even a Nike trailor & tent set up for fittings and demos. I took my ipod and sensor to them for help and all my data got dumped. a local runner showed me what to do after that.
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Inappropriate?For all those that have ever lost miles and really don't give a Damm about the challenges, the abillity for manual input is important and not a threat. But for all those who seem to live and die by these challenges the manual input is a hotter topic than steriods in baseball.
I for one would really like the option for manual inputting data, all though I doubt it will ever happen. I have 3 synced runs in the last 3 weeks yet I've run 10 times. it used to really make me upset now I've learned to just live with it and chalk it up to a flawed product.
There has been a lot of talk about excel and logging miles that way, yet we all seem to have over looked the obvious. not long ago befor all this computer stuff we used to keep runners logs in our gymm bags or desk and we'd log miles, splits, and over all times. Yes we even did our own math to figure out average pace for the young runners out there who cant remember that far back. I've gone back to the journal system as my back up and have a Numbers spreadsheet on my MacBook just becuase the Nike+ is so unreliable right now. Who knows Nike may even fix it if they ever take the time to read all that has been written by their customers' in this thread. but once again I doubt it since I've yet to see a Nike Representative even chime in once in the last 26 days.
As for the folks that talked about and or questoned the accuracyof the Garmin, it is dead on. I barrowed my friends brand new one and we ran on a local high school track for 5 miles. At the end of the 5th mile the ipod and sensor was 600 meters (approximately 660 yards) short of the 5 mile goal. So i recalibrated it to the measured distance and ran a 4 mile rout there a few days later and this time it told me I ran 4.14 miles. ????
Nike + is a nice toy / Training Aid, but if you are a serious runner as my extreem racing fool and triathalete like my friend its probably not for you.
I'll keep using mine til the battery wears out then I'll decide if I want to buy another one or not. But I can I would never go out and buy one just to win ficticious medals or trophys and race against someone that I have never met, can't see and don't know what type of course or conditions they are running on and in compared to me. For all of you that are that hung up on that enter some sanctioned races and then post the news paper results of your times on line.
I’m amused
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Inappropriate?I have lost several long runs due to a Nike+ or iPod malfunction and have also seen bad data on runs that I already know the distance (especially on runs in the mountains that tend to either overstate or understate mileage by 10-25% depending on vertical climb), so I am in major agreement that adding the ability to manually add or edit data would be a good feature.
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Inappropriate?I am in total agreement. I travel between New York and Washington DC. I have different sensors for different shoes. Sometimes, I don't get to sync right after my run. A couple of dozen times I have lost the information. It the claims that there is no data stored. In additon, most of the time, my nike shows a shorter route than the one I actually ran. This is not about "cheating", it is about having the ability to input information that you know is correct. I love this whole setup....I just want to help make it better.
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?I think this would be an extremely bad idea. There is already enought 'suspuscious' data on the site. Ex. Fastest 5K ever on the Nike site is about 2 min. faster than the current world record (according to Wikipedia)
This would just encourage more. -
Inappropriate?Being able to add data but not counting towards the challenge is a great idea. I use Nike+ as a runner's log. The challenges add more excitement, but it's not the greatest part. Competing against yourself is just as much fun.
I’m amused.
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Inappropriate?Not having the manually created data not count towards community items (levels, challenges, etc) I guess it wouldn't hurt.
It's interesting, though, that one of the biggest reasons posted here for wanting this feature is that the IPod seems to lose or corrupt data. Why not get Apple to fix their crappy hardware/software? That seems much more to the point of the problem. -
Inappropriate?because Apple is famous for their, "we are so cool, you should be thankful we even speak to you at the store" attitude towards their customers. This is coming from someone who started with an Apple ][ plus with no hard drive and a single floppy, and still has an iphone. (What I am saying is I agree with you, but it ain't gonna happen,s o
I think Nike as our Plan B is the best chance we got)
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Inappropriate?My problem is not just that the ipod loses the data, it is why. Half the time it loses the data as I am attempting to end the work out. I click menu, and try to scroll to end workout, and it doesnt work because I am sweaty or something. Than 5 attempts later, it just takes me back to the menu screen, out of nike+, and the work out has been completely lost.
Oh, and yes. So many people are pain in the buts and would use the a feature to manually input workouts to cheat on challenges but those are the people already cheating by putting their shoes on all day long, or using intentionally miscalibrated sensors.
I’m annoyed.
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not that this is the best solution, but i've been having the same problem with mine now that i'm doing longer runs. instead of trying to end the workout, i just hit the pause button to stop the workout until i cool off. then i use the menu button. it's annoying, but the best solution i've found so far.
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Inappropriate?Absolutely agree. Same with me. Pleae Nike allow us to manually input...like you use to when the Training and Plus site were integrated.
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Inappropriate?Additionally, there are times my I-pod has a not been re-charged or I am out of town and forgot the sensor, it does not mean I am not going to go for a run, a watch and the "map-it" feature should be all you need to input the data. I really don't care about it "counting" towards anything outside of my own world.
Is anyone from Nike even following this link or is this just a forum to vent? -
Inappropriate?I love this idea - it has been a constant frustration of mine. There's nothing worse than the 'ripped off' feeling you get when you don't have your iPod, or it's got a flat battery and your run basically doesn't exist - Nike+ is supposed to be motivating and this is DEmotivating.
If everyone's worried about cheating in challenges then I agree with the idea that it shouldn't be usable for any challenge.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?This is a great idea but I have to agree with what a lot of people have said already .. the non nike+ runs should not be counted towards challenges, it would be a easy way to cheat. however, being able to count a person's runs for their own personal benefit would be nice.
I’m indifferent
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Inappropriate?Come on, Nike Staff - let us know you're listening, or people will stop bothering to help you improve the site!!!
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Inappropriate?just replaced my sensor...instructions said if i calibrated my last there was no need to calibrate the new one. Stupid me, i believed it.
really wish i could fix that nike+ run saying 0.82 miles to the CORRECT mapmyrun distance of 4.22. Can't believe i believed the instructions. How frustrating!
I’m angry
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Aimee, I calibrate my sensor at least ever two months because I am increasing my pace. I just learned how to calibrate after my last run ... After you select end workout, the summary screen is displayed. At the summary screen, press the center button, this will give you an option to calibrate your last run with a known distance. Worked great for the last 15k I ran!
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do you know how to do that with a ipod touch?
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I do - after clicking the button to unlock the screen and selecting 'Pause Workout', select 'End Workout'. Then the summary info for the run should be displayed. At this point you can either select 'Done' or 'Calibrate'.
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Oh, and I know other topics speak to this - but why can't we use the Map It feature to calibrate our sensor after a run??? This seems like one of the most obvious utilities of the feature...
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Inappropriate?Just today i discovered my sensor wasn't working just before i started a workout. I would love to be able to include today's workout in my history...
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Inappropriate?Simple - really it is simple. don't manual data count towards challenges. everyone would win and we would have a tool that would prove to be more useful.
I’m loosing loyality
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Inappropriate?I like the idea very much -- I recently completed my longest run ever and my Nano did not record the data for some reason!
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Inappropriate?I think it's a very good idea, especially since my Nike+ has constant issues with stopping itself in the middle, or even beginning of a run. I run the same distance 3 times a week, so I know what the data is supposed to be, but so far have no way to fix it. I just want to be able to track my running for my own personal use.
It's pretty sad that people are opposed to this because they fear "cheaters" in some pretend cyber-competition. Get lives losers.
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This is one of the best points
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that does seem to be an issue that some people are worried about cheaters while others are just worried about keeping track of thier runs for personal reasons. just can't figure out for the people thats interested in it for thier personal reasons why not just keep a logbook. that is what everybody that was interested in keeping track of thier runs did before they had sites to do it for you. if you know the distance and time,write it down. figure out your own pace per mile. bring your logbook to the track with you when doing your intervals,tempo, or repeat runs. because the nike sensor doesn't do a good if your are running sprints with recovery times in between. so it seems like a lot of people needs to get a life then. it does take less time to write down 5miles in 37:00 minutes then logging into a site, going to a input screen,and filling in all the info. way to many people are taking this way to seriously.
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You are missing the point. Why do I want to carry a logbook, pen and stopwatch when I already have my iPod with me? That is why I bought a Touch when I already own 3 other iPods. It was supposed to make it simple to keep track of what days I ran and my time, but it has proven to be very unreliable.
And all I have to do is go to my "history" on the ipod to see what I want to know. I don't need to log on to the website. It would be nice if there was a way to fix that info when it is wrong. -
i get your point,for convience. i have no problem with that. i use my ipod almost every run i go on and like what it does for me. now would i go out an buy a 4th ipod just for this,no,but thats just me. i'm just saying,an expensive ipod thats unreliable, or a simple and cheap pen and paper that is reliable.all you have to do is go to history to see one run at a time instead of looking at a log chart with multiple runs all on the same page. yeah thats sounds so unreliable and not very helpful i guess. i believe if you wanted true distances to keep records of try the garmins. much better system than the ipods and nike sensors that wirelessly downloads and i don't hear of all the complaining with them.
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I'm getting really tired of you people that tell us to use something else. We have already spent the money on this system and are looking to improve the functionality of the product. Paper is not easier or quicker when you have to map out the run every time for the distance and even less so when you want some of the graphs of the data (which Nike could do a much better job of by the way). Yes the Garmin's are much more accurate, but they don't have the any community aspect (local application). Also, that's a large piece of equipment on your arm in addition to an mp3 player (i replaced my 4-5 year old 256MB player with an 8GB Nano, no more repeating during a marathon). Nike can't really do much to fix the equipment. Even if they fixed the issues with xml files disappearing, you never know when the sensor or sportsband will die. I can't understand why people are always opposed to progress.
Also, I don't know what Nate is talking about. When I hit the center button on the summary screen it just brings up the Nike+ menu. -
dfbourg, this is a stupid comment. Nike plus is an online logbook. Nike should just let us use it as such. What is your objection to that?
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dfbourg, what does a pen and paper do for me? it doesn't play music, it doesn't graph my statistics, it doesn't have training features, and it certainly doesn't have an online community. Nike billed this as a system that captures everything without my having to so much as blink. They're 95% of the way there, and there's no way I'm going to keep a log just to capture the 5% of runs that they drop. As long as they're not living up to their own hype, I'm going to be the guy holding up the mirror. The whole point of this thread is to let them know that I'm willing to cut them slack on their 5% lost data if they're willing to let me enter it manually.
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dfbourg, I'm not sure why you won't just agree that this system should work like it's supposed to, or offer a way to correct errors. I think you just enjoy being difficult.
You criticize my purchasing an iPod touch, and then suggest I buy a Garmin. Really, it's irrelevant to the problem. If you must know, I got a gift card to an upscale mall with an Apple store at holiday time, so the touch was an investment of less than $100. To me it is worth it just for the Wi-Fi capability. I decided to spend the additional $29 for the transmitter because I thought that having it keep track of my running would motivate me to do more. It has, but it has also caused a lot of frustration.
Maybe you actually think a notebook is more convenient (yeah, right) , but the fact is you own the Nike+ system too, so I guess we all know that you're full of it. -
Inappropriate?I keep losing runs I have completed, manuelly inputing should be a option with certain exclusions, I do particapate in challenges, but I would like to have overall picture of my running. I just lost a 13.1 miles run and I can not just go out and repeat it.
2 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?I would like to add in the mileage, because I have had several instances where my iPhone has stopped recording my work-out and I have lost mileage because of it.
I don't participate in the challenges, so it wouldn't effect that part of it. -
Inappropriate?I think there needs to be a way to recapture lost data. I have lost approximately six runs. I remember one in particular because it didn't show on a holiday. I also agree with the point that:
We paid for the product; it should work.
Whether we are beginner runners or elite runners, accuracy is important. I will try re-calibrating, but this should not affect whether or not data is uploaded and remains in my profile.
I’m irritated.
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Inappropriate?Nike+ - a great motivator.
I think about why I've become somewhat of an evangelist regarding the Nike+ system. I accept it's flaws (like finishing my workout 12k's into a 20k run and being slightly inaccurate regarding distance) because for me, on the whole, the system has been incredibly motivating.
Why do I think the community is important?
Running is something I've always enjoyed but had never been able to commit to long term. In the past 6 months I've dropped 10 kilos and am running my first marathon in 8 weeks. I can chalk a lot of that up to Nike+. I think the true beauty of this system is that it lets you challenge yourself. Sure, you're part of a community but the reason that community is so solid is that every member of it is pushing themselves in the same way.
This isn't the Olympics.
I don't know why cheating is such a concern - do we really join group challenges to beat other people? Isn't the key reason for joining these challenges to push ourselves - to put ourselves in a situation that forces us to work harder than we have previously? Let's be honest guys, we're not training for Olympic Gold here. I ask you this: if someone cheats in a Nike+ challenge aren't they the one who ultimately loses? I don't mean that in a touchy-feely philosophical sense, I mean that they're ultimately not going to get the gains they're seeking through Nike+. If, on the other hand you've increased your mileage, speed etc by taking part in that challenge, then surely you've had a personal victory.
Nike+ lets me keep track - so don't let me miss a run.
In terms of the notion of inputting data itself, I come back to my original point. I chalk a lot of my continued motivation up to Nike+. Those graphs or the personal challenges I set myself become such a focus because I want to see, there on my laptop screen, the progress I'm making. Scribbling it down in some diary misses the point entirely - it doesn't get recognised in my total distance, it's a gap in my history. Early on, when I started using Nike+ I became so obsessed with it that, if I didn't have my iPod with me, I'd skip the workout - after all, what's the point if nobody knows I did it? I've now become a little more committed to running itself but I still feel ripped off if I have to run and it doesn't get recorded.
Bottom line (for me).
We've turned this into such a huge issue. Bottom line for me? The system works pretty well - let me input the odd data manually so my entire running history is there at my fingertips. Nike+ is a motivational tool - don't make it demotivating to run if I happen to leave my iPod at work.
5 people think
this is one of the best points
5 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Awesome comment Andy. I've just bought my second kit (and third sensor) in 6 weeks because I'm starting to get demotivated by faulty technology. I HAVE to know how well I'm doing, and have my full runs recorded, otherwise I'll set myself another challenge of eating lots of crisps and gathering dust.
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Awesome comment Andy. I've just bought my second kit (and third sensor) in 6 weeks because I'm starting to get demotivated by faulty technology. I HAVE to know how well I'm doing, and have my full runs recorded, otherwise I'll set myself another challenge of eating lots and lots of crisps and gathering dust.
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Very well said...
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Well said, Andy! Thanks for articulating so well why so many of us are pushing for this feature.
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Andy's thoughts are articulated extremely well. Manual input of data would be a reasonable and helpful feature to add to Nike+. I hope the folks at Nike are reading these posts...!
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Inappropriate?I agree with Andy. I would add that I think Nike is limiting the use of the Nike+ system in order to drive sales of their shoes. I have two friends that have switched to Nike just so they can use the Nike+ system. By preventing manual input, it limits who can use the system.
I’m seriously crazy
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This is one of the best points
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No, it doesn't. I wear Adidas and it works just fine. The sensor doesn't have to be in the insole of the shoe to work.
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No, it doesn't. I wear Adidas and it works just fine. The sensor doesn't have to be in the insole of the shoe to work.
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To be able to connect you need to have an account, therefore, you would need to have the Nikeipod. Entering the data manually on occasion should not constitute a problem with sales.
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To be able to connect you need to have an account, therefore, you would need to have the Nikeipod. Entering the data manually on occasion should not constitute a problem with sales.
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I made a "pouch out of duct tape, punched a hole in it, and fitted it into the laces of my Asics, and it works fine. The sensor needs to be the right way up.
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Inappropriate?it'd be nice to be able to enter data for workouts other than running too!
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?To be honest, I don't use the Nike+ system, but I've been using the schedules on the old training log for a few months (and a few months a couple years back). By not allowing runners to input their own mileage, a whole cross-section of non-iPod-owning individuals (or at least non Nike+ individuals) are missing out on what a great resource the Coach feature is.
It seems strange that a company that is supposed to have been built for and by athletes (amateur and professional) is turning an awesome training tool into a 'members only' club. True, some people will buy the system to be a part of the group, but I think Nike will also be turning a lot of people off by making it mandatory. It's a blatant attempt at milking more money from customers who just want to run.
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?Phil, given that the sensor technology was refined in conjunction with Apple's own engineers, it really is a joint partnership (Nike + iPod). They have the right to insist both parties get their dues, no?
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Inappropriate?Yeah I agree I did the 10K Race the World last year and my Nike+ recorded it as 7.3K Tried syncing it two or three times since then but have given up! I regularly lose a couple of runs in a month when it flashes up my run and then doesn't store it on my ipod! Not a major problem but annoying. It is still a fantastic motivational tool Nike let us input data for our own use but not for challenges Buggsie
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Inappropriate?I'm also in favour of some manual adjustments to the runs. I've not read all posts so maybe someone has already suggested this, but as the sensor apparently has an error margin of approx. 10-15% (even when calibrated) then one should be able to manually adjust the runs 10-15%.
And for the sake of the whole challenges-discussion: People who are cheating are ultimately cheating themselves. It's a big cliché, but true non-the-less... -
Inappropriate?SOOOO let them count but only for personal goals and not for challanges and events !
everybody happy! :)
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Inappropriate?I think this would be a good idea too, I dont know why but every second walk for me comes out with the wrong distance, I am not interested in cheating, but heres an idea if you could see the entry was 'manual' wouldnt that satisfy the doubters and not make it eligible for say a competition?
Incidentally I cant get it to calibrate as a run, it only ever lets me calibrate as a walk, I am a very slow jogger and i can barely run .25 of a mile.
I am still working on it though!
I’m thoughtful?
3 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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you'll get there, keep up the hard work!!
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Thanks Maggie I need all the help I can get!
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Thanks Maggie I need all the help I can get!
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Inappropriate?Once you end your workout, you will see the summary screen. Press the center button at this screen and you will see an option to calibrate the last run. Works great!
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This is one of the best points
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Thanks Nate I'll try it, now I'll have to take my Glasses while jogging to read the display!
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Inappropriate?I agree with the followup.... Go ahead an let us manually enter runs that we were unable to track with nike-plus, but DEFINITELY exclude those runs from challenges. Let's face it... for most avid runners, both of the following are true:
(1) Most of us have messed up tracking a run at one time or another and we really REALLY like to have our miles added up....
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(2) Most of us are really REALLY competitive. That nature could cause some (not most, not many, but definitely some) runners to be tempted to cheat in a challenge.
So the solution is obvious (and exactly as proposed in freeflow1's followup)..... Exclude our manually entered runs from challenges and we are all set.
I’m thankful
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This is one of the best points
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I have analysed the problem, and it seems my pace is not consistent enough for the sensor, I think it might be better to have a manual calibration that includes the stride length, other pedometers seems to trounce Nikes accuracy, if during calibration i could adjust the stride length to equal the distance covered I am sure I could improve on the accuracy. Thinking about it, to cheat, can we just not alter the calibration to be more distance covered than we have actually achieved anyway. I am really competitive, but only against myself, I cant find anyone who goes as slow as me anyway!
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I have analysed the problem, and it seems my pace is not consistent enough for the sensor, I think it might be better to have a manual calibration that includes the stride length, other pedometers seems to trounce Nikes accuracy, if during calibration i could adjust the stride length to equal the distance covered I am sure I could improve on the accuracy. Thinking about it, to cheat, can we just not alter the calibration to be more distance covered than we have actually achieved anyway. I am really competitive, but only against myself, I cant find anyone who goes as slow as me anyway!
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Finally calibration worked! I just walked all the way!!!!!!
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Inappropriate?Absolutely agree with Chris - therefore if runs could be catagorized, with an auto catagorization of manually entered run that couldn't be entered in challenges - this would get around the problem.
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Inappropriate?Good show Chris - I just love the smell of an “insightful” thought in the morning...
{messing around with the calibration} very funny, bravo....
I’m happy
3 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Hi Reindeer, hey if you want to really confuse things, do step ups while forgetting to pause it, that really confuses things! Mind you on a more serious note, it could be useful to be able to make notes next to each run, probably this should be another thread, but its absolutely p------ down at the moment so i may go out, but it wont be quick! - well even slower i mean!
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Hi Reindeer, hey if you want to really confuse things, do step ups while forgetting to pause it, that really confuses things! Mind you on a more serious note, it could be useful to be able to make notes next to each run, probably this should be another thread, but its absolutely p------ down at the moment so i may go out, but it wont be quick! - well even slower i mean!
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WAIT, I found a whole new section to make comments about the run, belay my last!
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Inappropriate?yes perfect idea .some times I forget my sportband or I run exactly afterwork ...so
steph
I’m kidding
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Inappropriate?It seems like there would be an easy fix for this idea:
Let people manually input data, but don't let it count toward challenges. It would be simple for Nike to flag manually inputted data and screen it from calculations for the Challenges.
This way people could log all their workouts, but people wouldn't be worried about cheating in challenges. Right?
I’m who cares.
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Inappropriate?I think it's a great idea to manually enter run data. To everyone worried about cheating, have the manually entered info just for personal use. This data would not be taken into account for any challenges. This would be very simple to do, as I've worked with databases and logs before.
I know Nike is a little worried that if they allow the ability to manually enter data, then people won't buy their products. There is a solution for this too. Just limit the amount of manual entries - for example, one per week. This, again is simple to implement and it's a win - win situation.
Please Nike, we're paying for this great and motivating service, the least you could do is allow us to manually enter in run data.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?I don't think limiting it to one per week is the best fit for the solution. For challenges you can probably just set up the data base to accept only the distance you've recorded via the workout. And the manually added data will just show up on your personal distance log. If I was going to cheat I would just watch tv and slam the chip off my leg for an hour.
As for buying the equipment. If this is a problem then only allow people to manually add data to the runs that have been provided via the chip. If I do a 5 mile run, but don't use the chip, then I can't just add data. I can only "amend" the data I provide using the Nike+ chip/gear.
That way no cheating on challenges, and yet all the accuracy of personal records, distances, etc2 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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You're missing the point here - people want to be able to manually enter data when they go for a run and forget their sportsband or ipod for instance. I agree limiting it to 1 per week is not sensible - only allowing people to enter challenges with chip data is obvious. Only allowing people to upload manual data if they have registered a chip will avoid the Nike worry of people not buying their stuff, and keeping manually entered data for personal record, so no updates via facebook etc reduces the chances of people wanting to cheat in other ways than challenges.
If Nike want this service to be sticky (which will lead to selling more kit ultimately) they should make it as useful as possible for users - and lots of people want manual data on top of chip data! -
You're missing the point here - people want to be able to manually enter data when they go for a run and forget their sportsband or ipod for instance. I agree limiting it to 1 per week is not sensible - only allowing people to enter challenges with chip data is obvious. Only allowing people to upload manual data if they have registered a chip will avoid the Nike worry of people not buying their stuff, and keeping manually entered data for personal record, so no updates via facebook etc reduces the chances of people wanting to cheat in other ways than challenges.
If Nike want this service to be sticky (which will lead to selling more kit ultimately) they should make it as useful as possible for users - and lots of people want manual data on top of chip data! -
Inappropriate?I use the nike training log to manually enter my runs. It would be nice if this were integrated more with the nike+ features as well. When I first started using the Nike+ system, there was no integration with the Nike+ training, and you all interated the Nike+ distance, time and time of day to the manual training log. Now that I don't use the Nike+ system anymore I miss some of the cummunity of Nike+ and wish the manual entry could "come back" int t the Nike+ site as well.